www.ElevAider.com

Hi Charles,
Thankyou for your thoughts. I am glad it has worked for you.May God keep you safe and healthy in this rough and tough industry. My question to you as followed; Will the accumulated annuities offset the loss of the (lifetime medical) you would have been entitled to have you remained with Local 3? My understanding is that the monthly medical available to a retired Local 1 mechanic is very expensive. Were you able to double your annuities without having to work overtime? How does this compare to the mechanic who chooses to work only 40 hours a week. Would it have been better for him to stay behind with Local 3? What if he wasn't fortunate enough to work 20 years in Local 1 such as yourself. A mechanic in his 50's jumping over to Local 1 stands to lose a substantial amount if he is looking to retire at 55,58,and 62 years of age. There just isn't enough time available to make a dent in the annuities like you have.
I don't see a level playing feild.
Your further thoughts would be highly appreciated.
John Fellin

Hi VA,
Thankyou for your thoughts. Many mechanics with 20 or more years found it an ideal move to make.Back in January of 2009 hundreds took the plunge and joined Local 1. I am one of of approximately 12 that decided it would be financially disastrous in the long term to terminate our employment at Local 3. I still feel the same. You do make some valid points.
Local 1 Elevator mechanics do make more money per hour than Local 3 elevator mechanics but I think you are only looking at the tip of the iceberg. I still pose the question ;Will the accumulated annuities you as a Local 1 employee accrue, over many years of working the standby list, offset the loss of the (lifetime medical) you would have been entitled to have you remained with Local 3? I have spoken with many Local 1 mechanics and have concluded based on conversations that the faith in the union appears to be biased favoring Local 1 employee over former Local 3 employee turned Local 1. There has been a number of layoffs at a former Local 3 elevator company recently turned Local 1. How much of a chance will these former Local 3 mechanics have gaining full employment any time soon? I have a feeling they are going to be on the end of a very long line. Please keep me posted.
You are again accurate in stating that you work alot safer and easier. This is the consensus of many Local 1 elevator mechanics I have spoken with. Formerly employed as a Local 3 mechanic in a Local 1 owned company, I have the highest respect for the undertakings that the company took in creating a much safer working environment for all its employee. I give credit where credit is due. I have questions as to how is it easier to work as a Local 1 elevator mechanic compared to a Local 3 elevator mechanic. In Local 3 a skilled route maintenance mechanic will have on average 40,50,60 cars.
(Stationary jobs not included). Repair work such as replacing hanger tracks ,ropes,traveling cable etc.. is referred to highly skilled repair teams and work such as violations and mandated testing falls upon the shoulders of the specialized maintenance repair team. As a Local 1 Elevator employee I understand that the routes hover close to 100 cars. You are responsible for repair work,violations and testing. That's alot on your plate,
even if the route consisted of only 50 cars. Would I be safe to say that this work is exhausting rather than easy? More importantly, how do you actually find the time to perform maintenance; not walk into a building, wave hello, get a signed ticket and leave but authentic contractually obligated monthly maintenance without the physical and mental well being of the human body succumbing to a variety of illnesses. Maybe $50 an hour is the motivating factor. That's a nice chunk of change, no question but only in a socialist environment should one rate of pay exist. America is built on capitalism.Competition drives people,the economy,our quality of life as Americans. A Monopolized state of employment borders on incarceration of our freedoms. Be careful of ones' wish. One Local may have the city by the balls but what will you say when your "cohones" are being squeezed in the corporate vice. You are not worth anything if you are dead. Remember, your objective is to work honestly, keep your customer happy,and make it to retirement standing on both feet. Its no fun spending it from a wheelchair and you can't spend it from the grave.
John Fellin.

Phil,
This is the message I have been trying to get out. You have said it all in a nut shell.
Thankyou,
John Fellin

John,

That was an interesting rant on capitalism, competition and freedom... but let’s talk real – we both know that Local 3 would be ecstatic if they instead were the ones with a monopoly on the trade. And you also appear to engage in some crafty doublespeak by first acknowledging that Local 1 mechanics work safer, and then suggesting otherwise a little further down in the same post. Which is it?

Fraternally,

John J.

i was told that our maintenance mechanics have 100 car routes. the lowest at 60. i don't think its a union thing. i think its an industry wide thing. i was recently told, "we are not in the elevator business. we are in the money making business." that speaks volumes to me about where this trade as a whole is going. its all about numbers and man power. that being said. be it local 3, local 1, local 31, or local 13. i think we should all be one union. this whole divide and conquer attitude on both sides of the coin is only hurting the union worker.

God Bless you.
In this economy having a job that pays well such as yours is a wonderful blessing.Unfortunately you must stand in line, fill out applications and take tests when they become available. This is tough as many companies are simply not hiring.Check the papers,internet daily for possible leads. 5 years of field service is excellent. If a union job is not available you can continue educating yourself while working at your current job.The more valuable you become to the company the better the chances of staying employed.
Contact a union rep and have him give you advise. You can call Local#3 IBEW at 1-718-591-4000

Good Luck Future Brother.

Hi Joe,
Thank you for your question.
You are correct in saying that there are 2 Elevator Unions in New York. Local 1 and Local3. Each goes to bat for their own men. Both offer benefits which I believe in the bigger picture are on parity with each other. What a wonderful idea if the best of both worlds came together.

John Fellin

Thank you Joe for your insight.
It is important for our viewers to understand the benefits of belonging to a wonderful family called union defined ( a group united for a common purpose ).
The purpose was for better pay and better working conditions. This came about as a result of companies having free reign over man. Men were beaten down, persecuted and enslaved. Read up on History of Unions.The stories are heart wrenching. Our forefathers died for better working conditions and a better life for their children. Unions are the true core of any established government. The strength of a nation can be determined by looking at the strength of the unions conglomerate.
We are continuously battered by those who try to compare their socialistic ideology to the proven and time tested good old fashioned democracy. They are nothing but autocrats in sheep clothing who will stop at nothing to destroy the very fiber of union. We must remain diligent and impenetrable.
God Bless you my brother.
Strength in Numbers.

Hi Joe,
Thank you for your question.
The unions are far from being broke. I have survived 3 bad dips in our economy in the last 32 years with this being the worse. I am still employed as well as most of my brothers. Yes it is true there are a number of men on the bench but the numbers are relatively small when compared to other industry professions.Companies can choose to be part of a brotherhood or not. They can visit their local NLRB office and certify to become a member (need 30% of the men) or conduct a petition to pursue a desertification vote to drop out of the union and tackle things on their own. The unions' strength is constantly tested by many unscrupulous companies. They have held up and weathered many storms over the years. Some decisions were not popular but never the less I believe they have always acted in good faith to represent me. I can only say good things about the unions. This economy is making employment difficult for many and the competition is great. Resumes are fine but you got to get out there and sell your talents in. Get out there. Meet the bosses .Shake their hand. Don't give up. May God Bless you and your family in pursuit of your dreams.

Thank you for your question.

Congratulations on your passing the exam and the interview. I wish I could look into the magic crystal ball and provide you with the answer on your work start. It all comes down to the current economy and the number of men on the bench. The bench numbers are historically not bad so that is good news. As long as the building owners demand service men will be needed. Keep busy while you wait, check in with the hiring office often and be ready to start work when called.
God Bless you and your family
and have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
John

Great Question.

I understand that vacation time is accumulated and paid out every 6 months.
I find it puzzling that one can not accumulate sick time in Local 1 Elevator Division. Did Someone goof?
Does that mean that one can take an unlimited amount of time off without consequence? Are days out due to sickness left to the discretion of the boss? That is a big mistake! I won't be surprised if this changes down the road and the men are finally entitled to sick days just like the elevator mechanics in Local 3.

John Fellin

Thank you Chuck for sharing your epiphany with everyone. Some men must dip their fingers into the pot of boiling water to truly be convinced it is hot. Your words will be read by many. Welcome back brother.

John Fellin

Hi Joe,
Thank you for your question.
Consider yourself very blessed to be making that kind of money plus health benefits as an apprentice. I can understand why it would be a wise decision for your company to unionize.I am wishing them success.
As far as your question;
A Local 1 Elevator Mechanic gets
paid more than a Local 3 Elevator mechanic per hour.As far as the overall package is concerned that is a great subject of debate.I believe that the greatest and wisest investment your company could make is affiliating itself with Local 3 IBEW.

May God Bless you and your Family.

John Fellin

Hi Lou,
Thank you for your question.
Please click on my homepage and download the Local 3 Union Book onto your desktop. It's in Adobe Format. It is chocked full of information that is useful to you.
John Fellin

Concerning the recent senior layoffs,the union has been made aware and grievances have been filed. This is in the early stages.The oldest of the senior mechanics has been replaced with a young non journeyman mechanic. Download the union book and read pages 56-57. All comments are appreciated.

Congratulations Nick and brother.
Happy to hear that you have both passed the written. Employment opportunities are unpredictable from day to day.
This is the latest transpire. There are some senior men on the bench at this time. There is also some good news that Local 3 companies have picked up some work from the competition at this time.
As long as this trend continues men will be needed. I suggest you contact the JIB at 718-848-5176 now and find out where you stand.
John

Thank you Mike for your input.
You raise very good questions.
As a member of Local Union #3 EE Division one can accumulate and God willingly retire with pension, annuity,
International,EDRBP,and lifetime medical
payments and savings.
I will discuss the medical as an example.
Mike, I believe you get paid well, if not better than me per hour resulting in a better looking pay check at the end of the week. This is where things turn in my favor.
For example:
Many of my friends left my union and jumped over to the other union for more money per hour in exchange for a life time medical that will cover a retiree until social security kicks in. This is money you will not see in this weeks pay check but will appear as savings when you retire. This is a medical savings of $2000 a month for a couple at today's prices. For a person who retires early at 55 and waits to collect SS at 67 that can be a savings of up to $288,000 that I will not have to shell out.The other union retiree will have to pay for his medical as well as the non union retiree. This is just one example.
Mike, I have a great respect for all mechanics but it is in your and your family's best interest if you can one day convince your boss to become a member in Local 3 IBEW.
John Fellin

Thank you Joe for your input.
This is my opinion quick and to the point.

A young man in Local 1 has the chance to work make lots of money per week,work many hours overtime and accumulate a generous pension. We have all heard the story of the retired Local 1 mechanic pulling in $9000 a month.

A young man in Local 3 has the chance to accumulate a nice pension and generous medical benefits without working many hours.

Please remember:
There are sacrifice one makes when working overtime. They are regretful to many. Some will not see their children grow ,some will not even know their children.

Having family is important.
Having money is important.
Having the proper balance between the two is the most important.

John Fellin

Dear Mike,
I am so glad that you are doing well in your position. I understand your desire to become a union member. Would love to welcome you aboard.If the majority in your company yearn for union membership things may be possible. It is up to the owner. You can contact Local Union #3 IBEW Elevator Division at
718-591-4000. Speak with a representative who may be able to advise you on what steps to take.

God Bless and good luck.
John

Mike,

Even if your company owner does not want you guys to be union you can vote one in on your own. It is a choice that belongs to the workers and I would be shocked if you didn't get the kitchen sink thrown at you by management while the process was going on but in the end I can say from experience that it is worth it.

Hey Charles - what was the name of the guy who was the president of Flynn- Hill elevator in 1998 - I remember him being a real piece of work he went on to KONE.

I work with local 3 and local 1 sure you get paid a lot of money in local one but they treat you like shit!!! I was working for Hudson elevator I got hurt at grand central station workin had to stay home for two weeks came back an they put me to work a mod job in the Bronx after the doctor told them I can't do heavy lifting and to top it off give me a woman helper to rip out and installe a new elevator not saying a WOMAN CAN'T do the job but if I'm hurt why would you do the my ba came out we talk and they left it alone 5 weeks I get layed off after the job was done because and the only reason I was there was because it was in the ghetto lol I go to the union and they told me I'm number 100 on the bench that was in march here we are in December and I'm still not working not a call WHERE ARE MY LOCAL BROTHERS!!!

Arturo,
Sorry to hear you are out of work Arturo. Companies have to make more money today with less employees. At least that's what most people in this world are lead to believe. Everybody must look inside themselves and sell their best qualities in order to get or keep a job.
This past year a number of experienced men in their 50's were laid off due to a number of reasons that did not make sense. Fortunately they all found jobs once more by getting out there and selling themselves. Look inside for your best qualities. I know you can do it.
Good Luck and God Bless.

Here I will give you something to think about yes I'm union and I just got laid off for the following reason I did not come thru the apprentice progra which was never told to me when I came in I came in thru a company that decided to turn union for the best later I found out they went back to non union because if any problem arrised no one can take care off it now I'm out off work and the union is kind off blowing me off no explanation on how to fix the problem and to top it off the union tells the company just to get rid off them were send you new guys and you guys say that they fight for us that's a crop of crap

There are many ways to get any type of union job. The method I feel that is the most secure is through the apprenticeship program. Completing this course sets the basics one needs to thrive in this industry in stone. Get back out there and advertise your talents.
If you have the opportunity to get into the apprenticeship program do so. I know of people who have continued this course while unemployed so as to secure a job once things picked back up. Don't give up. Where there is faith ,there is hope. God Bless you and family.

I'n response to the health plan and retirement package in local 3. I moved to local 1 with the company about 10 years ago. I was 53, I have surpassed my annuities of 32 years in local 3 in ten years. Now I'm looking to retire at age 63. problem is I need medical for two more years till age 65. (Medicare). As we all know medical today is very expensive. So to get a cobra with local one till age 65 you need to have at least 25000 hours on the books to get cobra for approx $800. otherwise it's going to cost you $1800 a month for a family (more than one person) plan. That's me under 25000 hr. You have to move to local one as early as possible. say min. 43 years old.
Here is what I found out about local 3 retirement plan. if you "leave" local 3 before you retire. You loose medical for life, Full Pension moves to age 65, not 58. you can start collecting at age 62 @ reduced rate. By the way start today taking out your Additional Fund monies,, utilize this found for your out of pocket medical bills. I am told that they will take 35% if you try to take this money out for any reason other than medical.
I don't know what local 3 pension is per year, but I'm willing to bet it's close to local 1. think twice before you move due to medical. Unless of course Obama care moves in.

Thank you for your question.

From my understanding,
you are entitled to the medical at 55 with certain restrictions. I can not calculate the pension as everybody has come into the industry at different times. Under the new contract you are entitled to 77% at age 55 and 95% at 58 years of age. 100% at age 60. Hope this helps.

Thankyou for your comment.
I am glad you are content with your decision.
I noticed you did not mention anything about medical coverage
costs once retired. I would strongly advise setting aside a few bucks today for this expense of tomorrow.
John

Hi Kyle,
Wow! Seward Park ? That was around 1992. Definitely a long time ago. Hope all is well. The rule of thumb to repair a break in service is the 1 out 1 in rule. This is only an ball park guess. It is now year 2012. If you were out since 1998 that would be 14 years. You need 14 years back in Local 3 to repair the break in service. You are 43 years old. 43+14=57 years old. At age 57 your break is repaired. Work one more year to 58 and retire with a local 3 pension.
Double check with the membership.

Former Local 3- current Local 1 member for 13 years.

Best move I have ever made. I was treated with kid gloves at Local 3 and I still don't have a single regret.

One observation:

A local 3 scumbag will throw their mother under the bus for a pat on the back from their supervisor.

A local 1 scumbag will try to deprive you of your share of OT.

Lifetime medical? Give me a break. Can you move to Florida and go any doctor you want and have it covered by the IBEW? If you have to go to a sparkie doctor at Elec-chester, that is useless to most retirees.

Thank you Jack for your thoughts.
I know of a number of NY retirees that travel back to NY from many states for the medical. They are elevator mechanics,carpenters,construction workers etc.
Regardless of the type of work, all free bees have limitations especially a medical that is worth $1500 and plus a month. Nothing to sneeze at! Would it be nice if you could find a doctor out of NY that would pick up the coverage? Absolutely! but until that time comes,many retirees will make use of the medical by making the sacrifice of travel. A few hours of road travel or inexpensive round trip airline tickets is what many retirees are accomplishing. I would not call this type of sacrifice useless and these men and women are not kidding themselves. They are well informed. Let's not be distracted. This is not an issue for anyone who retires and stays in New York. You stated the vast majority of Local 1 mechanics are superior ? All depends who you talk to.
A Local 3 mechanic with a stationary 10 car route may not think so.
A Local 1 mechanic with a 150 car route may not think so.
You are obviously happy with the decision of leaving Local 3 years ago and I have always been content of keeping my feet planted in Local 3 soil for the last 33 + years. It would be great to have one elevator union but that only would appear to work under certain economic circumstances. I'm not sure if we should all be like minded. I enjoy diversity such as our dialogue. During the course of our recent negotiations, I contacted many across the membership by email, phone and writing letters discussing the importance of reducing our retirement age and increasing our pension benefits.
Many listened and our contract was ratified with wonderful benefits.
The Local 3 membership is growing old and is making exemplary decisions as they face the future of retirement. I hear the horror stories of retired mechanics who now work as city inspectors to pay for their family medical. That is very disheartening. In a few short years many Local 3 elevator mechanics will be entering retirement without worry. The medical will cover their family and the check will be always in the mail. I strongly advise you set aside a few dollars
today. God Bless.
John